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Abe's Ads Anyone have a copy of A. Lincoln's ads for his law practice??? Saw one some time ago and want a copy for my law office wall. Any help much appreciated, Richard Richard ... Grand Blanc - MI -- USA... 2008/12/01 - 17:15:37 ( # 1)

Lincoln I walked the lincoln Trail in 1962 from Vincennes,Indiana-thru-Illinois.As civil war freak you could feel his presence-same at Ford's Theatre and the Memorial.We have a placque on a wall where the old train station stood saying Lincoln gave a short speech here in Rochester,NY-IRONY-The media should do a story on that, on his birthday.Point is,over time even the New Boston site could have been sadly forgotten. Herb Swingle ... Fairport - NY... 2008/11/22 - 08:26:46 ( # 2)

New Boston Thanks Joe, it would be nice if we could email someone in the area who might have noticed the memorial. As I said, it was becoming disregarded, with a pile of rubble nearby. David, you've brought to light a lesser known fact: Abe was involved in eradicating indigenous peoples. It reminded me of an IPTV series showing inconsistencies in the life of Jefferson, who might be viewed as having taken advantage of a black slave woman, but is life ever that simple? Anyway, I followed your link and the river front photo doesn't really fit with what I remember, but maps show other possible water frontage where I might have been. I went to Keithsburg after that (remember the road hooking left and then right in the town center) and chatted in a gas station before heading back to Iowa. Gerry Lloyd ... Plymouth England - ex Iowa... 2008/11/21 - 17:54:48 ( # 3)

New Boston Lincoln and His World: The Early Years (Stackpole Books, 2006) mentions New Boston. From page 298: “In September and early October, while the Van Bergen suit against Lincoln was pending, Abe did survey work at New Boston for Van Bergen and other real estate developers . . . . Van Bergen in turn was working on behalf of state senator Elijah Iles, who at one point had been Lincoln’s captain in the Black Hawk War. Van Bergen explained, ‘Iles had loaned some people some money, and they couldn’t pay it; and he took on eighty acres of land. And Iles thought it might be a good thing to lay out a town on it, and said he would give me a share in it if I would attend to having it surveyed etc.’” From pages 299-300: “New Boston became more than a paper town, but never became a great commercial center. Van Bergen remembered the expedition with Abe to the wilderness where New Boston town lots would be located. ‘We started from here [Springfield] when they had the cholera. I had some good brandy with me and used to take it as a preventative of cholera, but Lincoln always refused to take any even for that purpose. People sometimes refused to let us stay all night when they found we were from Springfield where the cholera was.” Van Bergen noted, “We traveled over there [to the New Boston site] on horseback . . . stayed there about a week.’” Also, this source may be useful: “Lincoln’s Association With New Boston.” Journal of the Illinois State Historical Society 51 (1958): 200–202. Richard Lawrence Miller ... Kansas City - MO... 2008/11/21 - 08:30:25 ( # 4)

New Boston, IL David (and Gerry), Re Boston,Illinois. On October 27, 1834l Lincoln (along with Mentor Graham) served as an election clerk at New Salem. I have searched and searched and still am having difficulty finding a Lincoln speech delivered at New Boston. If he made any impromtu remarks at the time he surveyed the town, they were not recorded. I am glad, David, that you have weighed in on this, too. Perhaps the three of us can eventually uncover the mystery. Joe Di Cola ... Queen Creek - AZ... 2008/11/20 - 10:05:02 ( # 5)

New Boston, Illinois I found another possibility as the subject matter for a Lincoln speech in New Boston, Illinois as follows. Lincoln was elected and served as a captain in the Black Hawk War. "Andrew Jackson is well remembered as a populist president, war hero and financial reformer. He is not so well remembered as a virulent racist. Jackson set as a goal for his presidency the relocation or extermination of all Native Americans east of the Mississippi. In his first year as president he signed the Indian Removal Act of 1830. At this time the area in northern Illinois surrounding New Boston was originally Fox territory supposedly ceded via questionable treaties thirty years earlier. Federal land grants, pioneering settlers and President Jackson brought war to the region in 1832. Now known as the Black Hawk war for its leader. Black Hawk's defeat in the Massacre at Bad Axe cleared the way for settlement in earnest and New Boston was founded in 1834. The young lawyer Abe Lincoln (who also fought as a militiaman in the Black Hawk war) did the original survey of the town; a fact the present residents proudly point out on the road sign welcoming visitors." http://users.stlcc.edu/jangert/newboston/nboston.html I wonder what the young man (25 years old), Abraham Lincoln, said to the people that he addressed that day in the newly surveyed town of New Boston, Illinois. P.S. People sailed across the Atlantic to the colonies and later called the region New England. Then, some of their progeny moved out to the Far West and named their new little town on the frontier and shore of the Mississippi River, New Boston. David Lockmiller ... San Francisco - California... 2008/11/19 - 14:17:52 ( # 6)

Glass Piece Etched with Abraham Lincoln Good Afternoon, In our collection aera at Lincoln University, we have a piece of glass with Abraham Lincoln etched into it which came from the US Capitol Building that was dontated to Lincoln University after damage was done to the building. Anyone with information, please contact me at mortega@lincoln.edu Melissa ... Lincoln University - PA... 2008/11/19 - 11:47:23 ( # 7)

What is going on? This forum has been very useful to me in my research for Lincoln information,But the latest postings blow my mind.I thought this was intended to be a historical information forum! Herb Swingle ... Fairport - New York... 2008/11/17 - 19:01:33 ( # 8)

New Boston, Illinois The Lincoln Log Calendar indicates that Congressional elections were held on October 27, 1834. Perhaps Lincoln made a speech in favor of one the local candidates for Congress or discussed what he felt at the time to be important national or "Illinois" issues that should be addressed in Congress. David Lockmiller ... San Francisco - California... 2008/11/17 - 13:22:30 ( # 9)

Forgiveness Mr. Lopez, As no person is without sin, this country is also not without sin. However, on January 20th we will experience a rarity in history...world history... a peaceful tranfer of power in time of war. The United States is also in the third century of the Great Experiment of a government of/for/by its people. We are flawed, and we may need some sort of Devine assistance, but we are not without hope and purpose. Kent Tucker ... Rantoul - Illinois... 2008/11/16 - 00:36:30 ( # 10)

Awake?? ...uh....yeah, sure. PWH ... East haven Ct... 2008/11/14 - 22:14:06 ( # 11)

ASK THE ALMIGHTY GOD FORGIVENESS I would like to comment concerning the speech Mr. Lincoln made in 1863. I think The United States need urgently the forgiveness of NATIONAL SINS before is too late. Mr. Lincols had the courage to ask to the nation a day of humiliation, prayer and fast for all the NATIONAL SINS of that time and he was heard form above and the nation was preserved. I pray for the new elected goverment to make big changes, if not, the consequences will inevitably come. ¡PLEASE AMERICA, A W A K E ! William Lopez ... Santa Eulalia, Huehuetenango - Guatemala... 2008/11/13 - 21:32:36 ( # 12)

New Boston, IL Thanks Joe, the ol' grey cells intact after all. It was a quiet moment for me there at that site. Abe always being a big figure in anyone's schooling (S. Africa) and it rooted things for me. A great flotilla of white birds was sailing slowly past at the time. The stone definitely said he had given a speech on that spot Gerry Lloyd ... Plymouth England - - IA... 2008/11/13 - 15:33:18 ( # 13)

Lincoln and Mormons Belatedly on Lincoln and Mormons. According to John Cook Bennett (an Illinois Mormon leader), in 1840 when the Illinois legislature approved charters of several Mormon corporations, “Lincoln, whose name we erased from the electoral ticket in November . . . had the magnanimity to vote for our act, and came forward, after the final vote, to the bar of the house, and cordially congratulated me on its passage.” When Joseph Smith appeared in federal court at Springfield in 1843, Mary Todd Lincoln was among the women spectators seated on the judge’s platform. Richard Lawrence Miller ... Kansas City - MO... 2008/11/12 - 08:05:15 ( # 14)

New Boston, IL Gerry, You really piqued my curiosity and, EUREKA, I found what you were lookig for. On September 30, 1834 Lincoln surveyed the town site of New Boston. He also witnessed a deed transfering lots in New Boston to Elijah Iles of Sangamon County, and witnesses one other transaction. On October 1, Lincoln's survey was filed. In Brevets Illinois Historical Markers and Sites, there is no reference to the monument, but it may have long ago disappeared. I would guess that the monument either referred to Lincoln's survey or was the original survey point. Thanks for the fun I had tracking this down. Joe Di Cola ... Queen Creek - AZ... 2008/11/10 - 15:19:44 ( # 15)

Riverside memorial I got my Mississippi River tour guide today and now estimate that the small memorial on the East bank of the river is probably behind the small town of New Boston, Ill Gerry Lloyd ... Plymouth England - IA... 2008/11/10 - 10:49:36 ( # 16)

Lincoln Flag, cont. Roger, With all due respect, I would have to disagree with your remark, "For example, Clara Harris (later Clara Rathbone) said Laura Keene never held the president's head, and that if there was blood on Laura Keene's dress, it was from Henry Rathbone's wound, not Lincoln's." I would not think Rathbone's blood would be present on, A. The "supposed" flag that Keene allegly had in her lap while cradling Lincolns head. B. Keene's dress either. Rathbone's blood spatter happened well before Laura Keene entered the box. Rich Symth probably has it right. "When other assistance arrived, Laura got up and the flag that was draped over the front of the box for decor was pulled down and placed under his head." I doubt that Rathbone's blood spatter "landed" on the flag attached to the box below. If anything, the "alleged blood" on the flag that Keene had in her lap while cradling Lincoln's head, came from Lincoln.Even though Leale, (I think) said there was a miminal or none, amount of blood coming from Lincoln's head wound when he examined the entry wound. I understand Roger that you are relating what you have been told or have learned, and you are far wiser on this subject than me. Anyway, that's my two cents. Randal Berry Randal Berry ... 2008/11/07 - 22:46:41 ( # 17)

Lincoln Flag I would like to thank all of you that helped me reach the conclusion--that we will never know about the evidence that proves or disproves the story of the blood and the Lincoln flag.I feel that my objective was reached-at this time there is not an answer that is 100 percent right or wrong about the Lincoln flag. Herb Swingle ... Fairport - New York... 2008/11/06 - 18:56:07 ( # 18)

State Box flag Many years ago I talked about this flag via phone with the late Michael Maione, Ford's Theatre historian. Michael's knowledge of the Lincoln assassination was encyclopedic to say the least. I took notes of what Michael had to say and kept them in my Lincoln files. Michael said all available evidence led him to believe the flag is definitely authentic. However, he could not confirm or deny that the flag actually came into contact with Abraham Lincoln's head. Because there was so much pandemonium in the State Box after the shot was fired, eyewitness accounts vary markedly on exactly what happened and who did what. Indeed several eyewitness accounts do have Laura Keene holding Abraham Lincoln's head as the doctors attended the stricken president. Dr. Leale's own account was that Laura asked permission to do this and permission was granted. However, other eyewitness accounts say this never happened. For example, Clara Harris (later Clara Rathbone) said Laura Keene never held the president's head, and that if there was blood on Laura Keene's dress, it was from Henry Rathbone's wound, not Lincoln's. Thus, like many incidents that tragic night, we are left in a state of confusion on this matter. Some authors accept the version that Laura cradled the head, but other authors never mention it in their accounts. Because the actual eyewitnesses differed in their versions the absolute truth on this will probably never be known. I know there are experts who feel Leale probably embellished at least some of what went on in the State Box. Roger Norton ... 2008/11/05 - 15:51:44 ( # 19)

Lincoln Flag Good luck on the research Herb. The provenance on the flag is strong without a witness seeing the flag placed under the President's head, stronger than a lot of items being displayed in museums today. I have taken the liberty of attaching a comment from an article about the flag: Dr. Edward Steers, Jr., the nationally recognized historian and Lincoln scholar, stated, "The Pike County flag is on its way to becoming the single most revered flag of our day, similar to Francis Scott Key’s Star Spangled Banner, Betsy Ross’ first American flag, and the ensign raised on Iwo Jima island during World War II." rich ... smyth - pa... 2008/11/05 - 11:05:23 ( # 20)

VICTORY OF DEMOCRACY Congratulations to all the American people. The dreams of Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King are really coming true. From a Brazilian admirer of that country. Sebastiao Albano ... Cruzeiro,SP - Brasil... 2008/11/05 - 09:58:30 ( # 21)

Lincoln's flag I feel that until I see or hear more evidence about the flag and who actually put it under Lincoln's head-it still stays as an unproven historical controversy of"He Said-She Said"ALL OF CIVIL WAR historians that I have contacted-Know of any one who witnessed someone putting an American flag under Lincoln's head. Herb Swingle ... Fairport,NY - New York... 2008/11/04 - 20:04:37 ( # 22)

Comfort Lincoln's Head Hi Herb, Yes, there is evidence that the actress Laura Keene cradled the President's head in her lap after he was shot at Fords Theatre. When other assistance arrived, Laura got up and the flag that was draped over the front of the box for decor was pulled down and placed under his head. When the President was taken out of the theater, Thomas C. Gourlay (part time stage manager) took the flag. Prior to his death in 1888 he gave the flag to his daughter (Also performing that night at Fords)Jeannie Gourlay. She retired and moved to Milford, PA. Prior to her death she gave the flag to her son Vivian Paul Struthers who donated it to the Pike County Historical Society in 1955. The flag is on display there now. rich smyth ... Milford - PA... 2008/11/03 - 12:56:31 ( # 23)

Riverside memorial Joseph, Thanks for that. Not being all that historically aware at the time, I suppose it could have been another great persona that spoke there. It was behind the general buildings of a small town on a small road right on the riverfront. Was living in Iowa City at the time so am sure I crossed the river at Muscatine (great ramp-like bridge there). Am now banned 10 years after a sequence of paperwork mistakes Gerry Lloyd ... Plymouth England - IA... 2008/11/03 - 05:36:28 ( # 24)

lincoln's flag Is there any evidence to show that someone used an American Flag from the box to comfort lincoln'head? herb swingle ... fairport - new york... 2008/11/02 - 12:50:48 ( # 25)

Lincoln memorial Muscatine, IA Gerry, The only thing I could find is that Lincoln wrote to Henry O'Connor of Muscatine on September 14, 1856, declining an invitation to attend a mass rally for Fremont. Lincoln felt that he needed to stay in Illinois, where much work was to be done on behalf of Fremont as the first Republican candidate for President. Joseph M. Di Cola ... Queen Creek - AZ... 2008/11/02 - 12:48:25 ( # 26)

Gerrit Smith Re-reading my last post...I made a mistake. Gerrit Smith did not contribute to John H. Surratt's bond but the bond to release Jefferson Davis from Fort Monroe. Since other prominent northerners like Horace Greeley and Cornelius Vanderbilt also contributed to the $100,000 bond it was probably in an effort to heal the nation and move on. rich smyth ... milford - pa... 2008/11/02 - 08:30:14 ( # 27)

Books about Lincoln I know this is a difficult question to be answered but could somebody tell me how many books are supposed to exist about Lincoln today? I read somewhere, a long time ago, that Lincoln is the second person in history of mankind to have books written about him. The first is Jesus Christ. Is that true? Sebastiao Albano ... Cruzeiro,SP - Brasil... 2008/11/01 - 21:03:43 ( # 28)

River site of speech by Abe I ran into a memorial quite by accident when pulling off the road a few miles south of Muscatine, IA (on the Illinois side) where a plaque said Abe had given a talk there on the River bank. Someone had recently tipped a little pile of old building material not 5 foot from the memorial. Would anyone know what that site would be about? (gerrytlloyd@yahoo.com) Gerry ... Lloyd - Plymouth... 2008/10/31 - 15:47:21 ( # 29)

John Brown I previously asked if Lincoln had ever talked about Mormonism. I would now like to ask his opinion on John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry. In a related question...Gerrit Smith,noted Abolitionist and one of Brown's "Secret Six" supplied land and money for Brown's raids. Years later Gerrit contributed to John H. Surratt's $100,000 bond freeing him during his conspiracy trial. Has anyone ever read of why he (Gerrit) would do such a thing? Thank you. rich smyth ... milford - pa... 2008/10/31 - 09:23:28 ( # 30)

Roger Norton Roger, Good news is, it's not you! It's the internet. They seem to have taken that page down. Randal Berry ... 2008/10/27 - 07:41:06 ( # 31)

Various I realize we usually discuss adult books on this forum, but I would like to recommend a book for young readers to those of you who are parents or grandparents of a young person to whom you’d like to introduce the soft side of Abraham Lincoln. In the recent past I had the pleasure of assisting an author named Ellen Jackson as she researched a children’s book entitled “Abe Lincoln Loved Animals.” Ellen's book has now been published, and it’s beautifully illustrated by Doris Ettlinger. It would make a great holiday gift for anyone looking for something for very young readers. Is it the Internet or just me? This morning I tried to go to the “Lincoln Herald” website at http://www.lincolnherald.com/ and I got a “page not found error.” Then I tried to go to the Association of Lincoln Presenters website at http://www.lincolnpresenters.org/ and all I got was a page in Japanese! Roger Norton ... 2008/10/26 - 12:34:01 ( # 32)

Here is the Lincoln photo I mentioned earlier I decided to go ahead and scan/upload the Lincoln image I referred to my my last posting here. It is now on Flickr. This photo is not new, but it appears to be rarely published in books, and I cannot find it anywhere else on the Internet: http://www.flickr.com/photos/23864058@N04/?savedsettings=2972315468#photo2972315468 Steve from somewhere "out there" ... 2008/10/25 - 12:59:15 ( # 33)

Looking for Lincoln photo from March 4th, 1865 Hello. I am looking for a URL that has a specific photo of Abraham Lincoln that was taken by Alexander Gardner at his inauguration on March 4th, 1865. The well-known photo of Lincoln standing at this event giving his speech is easy to find. However, I am looking for the image of Lincoln sitting down before he gave this speech. Hannibal Hamlin and Andrew Johnson are sitting next to him. This photo has been around for a long time, and I have copies of it in some of my Lincoln photo books. But it is not often reproduced. I can't find this particular image on the Internet. Steve from somewhere "out there" ... 2008/10/24 - 21:15:29 ( # 34)

"Our Lincoln" Hello all, There is a new book of Lincoln essays edited by Eric Foner out entitled, "Our Lincoln." Has anyone had a chance to read it? I love these types of books, but sometimes the quality of the individual essays differs dramatically. Michael Burkhimer ... Audubon - PA... 2008/10/23 - 21:23:37 ( # 35)

William Tilton Clark William Tilton Clark, the war department clerk who occupied the back room in the Peterson house in which Lincoln died, died on April 1, 1888 and is buried in the Lowell Cemetery in Lowell, Massachusetts. Mary Kauffman, Surratt Society President ... Owings - Maryland... 2008/10/23 - 14:35:34 ( # 36)

Presidential Musuem I agree about the comments made concerning the Presidential Musuem/Library. There is a lot to see so do your homework. I asked to view the pearl ring that Wilkes Booth gave a lady friend in Boston along with the love letters he sent her. They were kept hidden from all including her family till after her death. The ring had both their initials engraved on the inside. I held the ring in my hand imagining Booth picking it out at the store and presenting it to his friend. It was the highlight of my trip. BTW - The boots worn by Lincoln on that night were taken by William T. Clark whose rented room the President died in at the Petersen house. They were given by Clark to Justin H. Hatch of Lynn, Massachusetts. In 1947, Justin’s granddaughter, Ruth Hatch presented them to the Lincoln Museum. Whatever happened to Clark? Does anyone know when he died or where he is buried? Thanks rich smyth ... milford - pa... 2008/10/22 - 12:50:14 ( # 37)

Herold Ancestry As I had stated earlier this year in answering a question from another Herold researcher, we at the Surratt House Museum do not specialize in genealogy. However, I can tell you that the David Herold branch of the family did come from Baltimore. David's father, Adam George, moved to D.C. sometime before the birth of his son in 1844. David had two brothers, both of whom died as children, so there would be no direct link between his family and yours. However, there is quite possibly an indirect link through his father's relatives that remained in Baltimore. If you will contact me directly at laurie.verge@pgparks.com, I will put you in touch with friends who are descended through one of David's sisters. They have done some genealogy, but I'm not sure how much and if they can help you. Laurie Verge ... Clinton - MD... 2008/10/16 - 10:51:32 ( # 38)

Lincoln Museum items I hope the collections ends up in the AL Preidential Library in Springfield. They have the facilities to ensure that the collection is readily available to Lincoln scholars and others. If you have not been there, it is a state-of-the-art, magnificent facility! Joseph M. Di Cola ... Queen Creek - AZ... 2008/10/15 - 22:26:25 ( # 39)

The Snellers Congrats to Rhoda and Lowell Sneller and the "cat in charge" who runs this place. They have been nominated by the Gov. Blagojevich of Illinois to recieve "The Order of Lincoln" from The Lincoln Academy of Illinois. The Lincoln Academy of Illinois will present the honors Feb. 7, 2009 at the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Museum. Lincoln’s 200th birthday will be observed Feb. 12. Congrats again guys! Randal Randal Berry ... 2008/10/15 - 20:10:17 ( # 40)

Herold Family History Brandee, I noticed you live in Clinton, MD. Try the Surratt House or the James O. Hall Library there. It's at 9118 Brandywine Rd, in Clinton. I'm sure they could help you. Randal Berry ... 2008/10/15 - 18:31:51 ( # 41)

Lincoln museum according to several newspaper accounts the library of congress is out of the running for the fort wayne museum items, two known finalists are springfield and the state of Indiana mike gross ... arlington - tx... 2008/10/15 - 10:07:02 ( # 42)

David Herold Family History I was wondering if anyone might be able to help direct me to a route; My husband's mom was a Herold (born adn raised in Baltimore), and with it being such an unusual spelling for a last name in our area, he is hunting to see if the ancestry lines link up anywhere. Does anyone know of a ancestry website or other source in which we could track his family? (My deceased mother in law was born in Southern Baltimore in the late 1920's, so we're assuming that the 'branch' of David Herold (Daivd and Edgar are very popular names in the family, as they believe in reusing them) would be two-three generations before her. Please feel free to email me at mortuarygirlz at yahoo-- thank you so much Brandee Holmes ... Harwood/Clinton - MD... 2008/10/15 - 00:43:04 ( # 43)

Lincoln and the Mormons Roger, Thank you very much for the information. If Lincoln planned to deal with the "Mormon issue" after the war and slavery were resolved...we will never know. Interesting that he read books on the subject. Lincoln was also curious about Spiritualism, like Mormonism,another religion that took root in the "burnt over district" of New York State. rich smyth ... milford - pa... 2008/10/14 - 09:37:13 ( # 44)

definition of "score" Caroline, "Score" = 20. Four score and seven years = 87 years. Joseph M. Di Cola ... Queen Creek - AZ... 2008/10/11 - 13:20:45 ( # 45)

Lincoln and the Mormons Rich, I have a little information on Lincoln and the Mormons. On January 1, 1843, Joseph Smith was present in Springfield. Smith was arrested on a warrant issued by Governor Ford and had a hearing before Judge Pope in the U.S. District Court. It would have been physically possible for Abraham Lincoln to have met Joseph Smith during this January, 1843, trip to Springfield but there is no evidence the two men met. It is known, however, that Lincoln did some reading in this area while president. On November 18, 1861, the following books were borrowed from the Library of Congress and sent to the White House at Lincoln's request: John Williams Gunnison's "Mormons, or Latter Day Saints," John Hyde's "Mormonism: Its Leaders and Designs," and Joseph Smith, Jr.'s "The Book of Mormon; An Account Taken by the Hand of Mormon from the Plates of Nephi." Lincoln talked about the Mormons in a speech. This speech was given in Springfield on June 26, 1857. The bulk of the speech was on the Dred Scott Decision, but Lincoln also brought up a few other topics including the Mormons. I am including Lincoln's words on the Mormons: --------------------------------- FELLOW CITIZENS:---I am here to-night, partly by the invitation of some of you, and partly by my own inclination. Two weeks ago Judge Douglas spoke here on the several subjects of Kansas, the Dred Scott decision, and Utah. I listened to the speech at the time, and have read the report of it since. It was intended to controvert opinions which I think just, and to assail (politically, not personally,) those men who, in common with me, entertain those opinions. For this reason I wished then, and still wish, to make some answer to it, which I now take the opportunity of doing. I begin with Utah. If it prove to be true, as is probable, that the people of Utah are in open rebellion to the United States, then Judge Douglas is in favor of repealing their territorial organization, and attaching them to the adjoining States for judicial purposes. I say, too, if they are in rebellion, they ought to be somehow coerced to obedience; and I am not now prepared to admit or deny that the Judge's mode of coercing them is not as good as any. The Republicans can fall in with it without taking back anything they have ever said. To be sure, it would be a considerable backing down by Judge Douglas from his much vaunted doctrine of self government for the territories; but this is only additional proof of what was very plain from the beginning, that that doctrine was a mere deceitful pretense for the benefit of slavery. Those who could not see that much in the Nebraska act itself, which forced Governors, and Secretaries, and Judges on the people of the territories, without their choice or consent, could not be made to see, though one should rise from the dead to testify. But in all this, it is very plain the Judge evades the only question the Republicans have ever pressed upon the Democracy in regard to Utah. That question the Judge well knows to be this: "If the people of Utah shall peacefully form a State Constitution tolerating polygamy, will the Democracy admit them into the Union?" There is nothing in the United States Constitution or law against polygamy; and why is it not a part of the Judge's "sacred right of self-government" for that people to have it, or rather to keep it, if they choose? These questions, so far as I know, the Judge never answers. It might involve the Democracy to answer them either way, and they go unanswered. ------------------------------------ Additionally, there is information from the book entitled "CHURCH HISTORY IN THE FULLNESS OF TIMES" The Civil War Period (P. 383). When Brigham young sent "Deseret News" assistant editor T.B.H. Stenhouse to Washington D.C., to ascertain Lincoln's plans for the Mormons, the president told him, "Stenhouse, when I was a boy on the farm in Illinois there was a great deal of timber on the farms which we had to clear away. Occasionally we would come to a log which had fallen down. It was too hard to split, too wet to burn and too heavy to remove, so we plowed around it. That's what I intend to do with the Mormons. You go back and tell Brigham Young that if he will let me alone, I will let him alone." Throughout the remainder of the war, President Lincoln's tolerant attitude toward the Mormons won him the respect of the Saints. In Preston Nibley, Brigham Young: The man and His work (Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 1936) p. 369. Roger Norton ... 2008/10/11 - 10:07:58 ( # 46)

20 years No Name Given... 2008/10/11 - 07:47:31 ( # 47)

SCORE answer SCORE is the equivilent of 20 years Four score=80 years PWH ... esat haven - CT... 2008/10/10 - 18:48:56 ( # 48)

Score What is the definition of "SCORE" in "four score and seven years ago"? Carolyn ... Beaumont - Ca... 2008/10/09 - 14:53:49 ( # 49)

Snakes and the Surratt House Thank you Mr. Norton for your kind comments. I urge everyone to subscribe to the Surratt Courier, http://www.surratt.org/index.html They have loads on information every month about Lincoln and the assassination. Laurie Verge, (whom everyone knows) is the Director of the Surratt House Museum and she does a wonderful job at the Museum! In fact, Laurie rocks! Randal Berry Randal Berry ... 2008/10/08 - 18:06:13 ( # 50)

Snakes in the pine thicket Kudos to contributor Randal Berry for his interesting (and quite different!) article in the current edition of "The Surratt Courier." Randal, if I have scary dreams tonight, I am going to blame you! On a totally different topic, for those of you who have been kind enough to visit my Lincoln websites in the past, America Online has announced it will no longer host web pages. Thus, I have switched my 3 home pages to new URL's as follows: Abraham Lincoln Research Site is now at http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln2.html Abraham Lincoln's Assassination is now at http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln.html Mary Todd Lincoln Research Site is now at http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln15.html Roger Norton ... 2008/10/07 - 14:09:33 ( # 51)

Mormonism Did Lincoln ever have any comments on Brigham Young, polygamy or the Mormon church? rich smyth ... milford - pa... 2008/10/06 - 09:54:20 ( # 52)

Rietveld article - Des Moines Register Here's a link to a recent Des Moines Register article about the Lincoln exhibit in Pella, Iowa: http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008809280329 Tomorrow I'll be blogging some photos from the exhibit: www.midlifebyfarmlight.blogspot.com Lois Rathe ... Dunkerton - Iowa... 2008/10/02 - 10:12:56 ( # 53)

Ron Rietveld - Pella Exhibit Did you know that an exhibit of Ronald Rietveld's Lincoln memorabilia recently opened at Scholte House in Pella, Iowa? I viewed it on Sept. 20. It is open until Nov. 22, 2008. Lois Rathe ... Dunkerton - Iowa... 2008/10/02 - 08:48:28 ( # 54)

Seven Coaches You will find both the words AND music at this link to this classic piece by Lampbell & Robinson. I remember listening to this from a borrowed library record when I was very young. Enjoy. Jerry Eagon http://www.kewpie.net/lonesometrain.html Jerry Eagon ... Elkhart - Indiana... 2008/09/30 - 10:12:56 ( # 55)

Sheet Music Does anyone know where I can get the sheet music for "Seven Coaches Painted Black?" gayle cole ... jacksonville - FL... 2008/09/28 - 23:23:23 ( # 56)

Mary Lincoln's dress The dress Mary Lincoln wore to Ford's Theatre has been torn apart. Pieces of it are located at various museums including the Chicago History Center. The cape and bonnet she wore that night are also at the Chicago History Museum, and the fan she carried is located at the ALPL in Springfield. For more information about all of Mary's dresses, you can check my book "Fashionable First Lady: The Victorian Wardrobe of Mary Lincoln." In addition to descriptions of the dresses, there are also many photos including photographs of the items located in Chicago. Donna McCreary ... Charlestown - IN... 2008/09/27 - 07:59:44 ( # 57)

Mary Lincoln dress I am not sure about the Mary Lincoln dress, but the cape she wore the night of the assassination is at the Chicago Hostorical Society (AKA Chicago History Museum), and information can be seen as part of an online project at the Museum's website. Joseph M. Di Cola ... Queen Creek, AZ 85242... 2008/09/24 - 15:37:33 ( # 58)

fort wayne from what i have heard these are the major players for the fort wayne collection: library of congress the folks at gettysburg springfield and the state of Indiana it should be interesting mike gross ... arlington - tx... 2008/09/23 - 13:38:03 ( # 59)

Mary Lincoln's dress On the topic of collections, does anyone know what became of the dress Mary Lincoln was wearing the night of her husband's assassination? According to Elizabeth Keckley, Mary gave it to the wife of a favorite messenger (William Slade). Did it end up in a private collection, museum or...is it lost to history? rich snyth ... milford - pa... 2008/09/23 - 10:31:28 ( # 60)

Ft. Wayne Collection In regards to the disposition of the Ft. Wayne holdings, we understand that there is a great push being made by the Library of Congress and the National Park Service to get the collection to Washington, DC. With the holdings at the National Archives, the Library, and Ford's Theatre's new project of having a large educational facility adjacent to Petersen House, this would be a wonderful acquisition -- coupled with the extraordinary tourism to the nation's capital and the mecca for researchers. Laurie Verge ... Clinton - MD... 2008/09/22 - 16:34:29 ( # 61)

Manhunt on HBO We received a press release at Surratt House Museum stating that HBO is developing Manhunt into a mini-series (we have heard eight episodes)that is being spear-headed by David Simon (The Wire and author of the book that was the basis for the cop drama Homicide on NBC) and Tom Fontana (OZ and the script from Simon's book). Fontana is reportedly a history buff with specialties in the American Revolution and the Lincoln Assassination. The press release says that "Simon and Fontana will explore the assassination not from Lincoln's or Booth's point of view, but through the eyes of the little-known players." While Manhunt is definitely an action book, Simon says he "doesn't do action." He is also quoted as comparing the Lincoln murder to 9/11 and the gov't policies at that time to our current terrorism policies. "People have been fascinated by the Lincoln assassination since it happened. It's a pivotal moment in American history. The stakes were extremely high for the nation as a whole. The characters are grandly dramatic. So there would be reasons enough to be interested even if it were all an anachronism. But I don't think it is an anachronism. If you look at everything from Guantanamo to the Patriot Act to the debate over military tribunals versus civil prosecution, there's a lot of analogous stuff." P.S. Sounds like Simon may have taken a tour at Surratt House because we make the same points to those visitors who want to really take in the relationship of history to current events! Laurie Verge ... Clinton - MD... 2008/09/19 - 15:37:22 ( # 62)

Lincoln Museum items I hope these items are not going to PRIVATE collectors--they need to be available for all to see and enjoy. Frankly, I hope the Lincoln Museum and Library in Springfield, IL gets the items, papers, etc. Joseph M. Di Cola ... Queen Creek - AZ... 2008/09/19 - 14:45:03 ( # 63)

fort wayne has anybody heard of what is going to happen to the L. items in in fort wayne? I know several groups are competing. louis warren and mark neely are legends, they carried that organization Lincoln bicenntenial 2009 mike gross ... arlington - tx... 2008/09/18 - 22:16:12 ( # 64)

"Manhunt" movie I was just reading a posting by Brian Dirck on the blog- http://alincolnblog.blogspot.com/- that said that James Swanson's book "MANHUNT" is now going to be made into a miniseries by HBO. I tried to click on the link provided, but it said that the website wasn't responding. Does anyone have any more information? Thanks Liese Reeder ... Bellefonte - PA... 2008/09/18 - 16:57:04 ( # 65)

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